For Real? Virtual Encounter with Historical Eyewitnesses

In this interview, project managers Johanna Schüller and Christian Zipfel share their experiences of working closely with historical eyewitnesses, the virtual meeting of both young and old on the tour and how an interdisciplinary project can enhance educational work.

Ms. Schüller, you have accompanied the project from the very beginning and were part of the entire tour in Brandenburg. Which moment do you particularly hold dear?

Schüller: We had intensive conversations with lots of great people during the entire tour. My impression was that people had a desire for communication and wanted to tell us something about their personal lives, including those who talked about the post-war period and life and remembrance in the GDR. There was one encounter that particularly remained in my mind: An elderly couple visited the exhibition in Pritzwalk. After they had taken their time to go through everything, the woman took me aside to tell me about her own family history and life in the GDR. Her parents were Jewish and survived the National Socialist terror in hiding. Forher, the virtual encounter with Jewish historical eyewitnesses and the fact that their history is also exhibited in rural areas – in her hometown – and discussed with young people was clearly moving. 

You have been working with historical eyewitnesses for many years now and are committed to preserving their history. Volumetric videos, perceived as a conversation via VR glasses, are an innovative digital approach. How do historical eyewitnesses experience the recordings?

Zipfel: To start with, we searched for people willing to participate. One of the biggest challenges was that historical eyewitnesses are not digital natives. So we had to start by explaining what virtual reality actually is. We talked about the basics of 3D, about 3D animated films, and got to the bottom of it. The historical eyewitnesses proved very receptive to this technology and were curious. No one canceled, and no one needed to be convinced. The recording situation in a volumetric studio is not comparable to a normal interview. For the recordings, the historical eyewitnesses were sitting alone in a spacious, white room. They could hear me, but not see me. The reactions were very mixed. Some later told me that they felt like they were in a starship. Kurt Hillmann said after the recording: “It was as if I had spoken into the white night.” And it must feel something like that. At times, for example, the lack of a counterpart caused Mr. Hillmann to become very emotional. On the other hand, the historical eyewitness Rachel Mann, who had to hide in a cellar during the National
Socialist era, did not want to be alone in this room under any circumstances. It’s the only video in which I’m sitting in the room.

And how did the historical eyewitnesses react to the finished material?

Zipfel: Very diverse. Many were emotionally affected and impressed by the result. They felt as if they were sitting opposite themselves. For example, Leon Weintraub looked very closely and talked about technical imperfections. Ruth Winkelmann watched her recording and removed her glasses quickly. Being confronted with her own story again was difficult for her. Viewing themselves was not easy for the historical eyewitnesses.

School classes visited the exhibition during the tour. For some, it was the first time they had met historical eyewitnesses: What were the workshops like and what did the young people learn?

Schüller: We have been working with media educator Dr. Wenke Wegner from the outset; he has always considered the educational perspective during the development of the VR experience and the exhibition. The workshops for the 9th to 12th grade were designed and carried out on this basis. Once they had received a technical briefing, the pupils walked through the exhibition on a trail. In addition to the VR experience, the young people also learned what it means to pass on personal experiences to others. The pupils explored biographies and read about the history of the historical eyewitnesses at the book station. For us, it was important that the pupils not only deal intensively with the National Socialist era, but also with the technical format. Many of them gave us feedback on the VR experience, saying that it felt like they were alone in a room with the historical eyewitnesses.

The project is complex: It involves the historical eyewitnesses telling their life stories, the technical implementation and the educational perspective. How did the interdisciplinary collaboration work?

Schüller: More than anything, we all learn from and with each other. As a Jewish studies scholar and historian, I was encountering the technical side of the project for the first time. Intensive exchange and communication are central to a collaborative project. 
Right at the start, I was given the opportunity to take part in a video recording. Afterward, we asked ourselves what this format means for the future and for the remembrance of the victims of National Socialism. My job was to bring together all the points of contact and team formats. Working closely with the Film University during the development phase of the project proved beneficial. It’s a partnership and collaboration on an equal footing with a highly skilled team.

Zipfel: This has been a huge learning experience! When it comes to art, even if the works are political, you first create a work for its own sake and only then does it find an audience. In the case of a project like ours, which was intended to reach a specific target group from the outset and is designed to be instructional, the opposite approach is applied. It's enriching to observe the ideas that flow from different disciplines.

By summer 2024, you will have evaluated the tour and the project results. Please give us an insight: Which aspect was particularly challenging and which was particularly successful?

Schüller: We have evaluated the project from a range of different perspectives: We had evaluation questionnaires for adult visitors during the tour, and we got a lot of feedback on these questionnaires.

A three-stage workshop evaluation process with a school class, disseminators, and historical education experts began after the tour. The fact that the exhibition served as an introduction to the topic of National Socialism and that the access via technology worked very well and generated curiosity was highlighted as particularly positive. Even pupils who did not consider history one of their favorite subjects were directly addressed thanks to the technical and visual approach. Going forward – and the evaluation also clearly shows this – we plan to make the format even more differentiated. There are major differences between school children and young people who participated in the workshops voluntarily via youth clubs. We aim to approach the group constellations and target groups even more individually. The high level of demand from adults for our project has revealed this: They also welcome an educational format. Moreover, it is vital to strengthen the link to the present day and to current experiencesof displacement and flight and make them more visible.

Find out more about the project.

The interview was conducted by Jana Bültge and Emilie Buchheister.